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Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 16:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
It would either be redundant or hell for supply logistics. In EVE, its one thing, but in Dust, its another. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 16:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Crm234 wrote:what would be the point of buying ammo , when you get it resupplied by nano hives and supply depots? Everyone would just drop a nano hive in the mcc the first spawn and defeat the purpose. Nanohives will require ammo to create. Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would either be redundant or hell for supply logistics. In EVE, its one thing, but in Dust, its another. Same answer
But that is still hell for logistics, either that or redundant, if ammo is one broad thing that is interchangeable, or if it really is unique and nanohives must be supplied with multiple types.
Also, think about it. Ammo is a minuscule cost for frigates in EVE, and those guns are actually pretty massive. Some of the frigate-class turrets are actually dual-barreled 280mm artillery cannons, and the ammunition for them costs very little. Imagine how insignificant the cost of ammunition in Dust would be. It really is unneeded. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Crm234 wrote:what would be the point of buying ammo , when you get it resupplied by nano hives and supply depots? Everyone would just drop a nano hive in the mcc the first spawn and defeat the purpose. Nanohives will require ammo to create. Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would either be redundant or hell for supply logistics. In EVE, its one thing, but in Dust, its another. Same answer But that is still hell for logistics, either that or redundant, if ammo is one broad thing that is interchangeable, or if it really is unique and nanohives must be supplied with multiple types. Also, think about it. Ammo is a minuscule cost for frigates in EVE, and those guns are actually pretty massive. Some of the frigate-class turrets are actually dual-barreled 280mm artillery cannons, and the ammunition for them costs very little. Imagine how insignificant the cost of ammunition in Dust would be. It really is unneeded. Who said that Logis will have to bring multiple types of Nanohives? And yes, the price is miniscule, but its there. Imagine how many bullets are fired in a single match, then the price is noticeable. This can also cause for people to be more careful when firing, because missing will hurt where it hurts the most - the wallet. Also, have you ever seen how fast Frigates go through ammo? Now imagine how FAST we fire our guns. The cost per minute would be about the same.
1. I said that if you had to put ammo in to make Nanohives, you'd either need multiple types of ammo to make Nanohives, or you'd need to make ammo interchangeable.
2. Standard ammunition for a single projectile turret in EVE to fire once costs 10-15 ISK, and that is a big round (12mm is almost .50 caliber, and the projectile turrets in EVE are up to 280mm). So, let's be generous and say that an Assault Rifle round costs 0.10 ISK. If you fire it one thousand times, that's still only 100 ISK, and most people don't fire it that often unless they like constantly running out of ammo. It really is insignificant. And no, the cost per minute wouldn't be the same.
Take for example, some turrets fire every few seconds. It costs around 10-20 ISK for any given turret to fire once. Let's say 20 times a minute, which is once every three seconds. Not terribly fast for a frigate-class turret. That would cost 300 ISK/minute. To do similar, an Assault Rifle at the previously stated generous cost would have to fire 3000 rounds per minute.
Combat works differently in EVE, as well, as your turrets are supposed to keep firing, independent of other actions you commit. You can't do the same in an FPS. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. Only one. You choose it when you fit your gun. (When gun customization comes out)
Yes, I would like to see the option of customizing a gun with ammunition, but I'm still confused about how it would work.
What if you kept your own ammo in stock, and when you went to a supply depot or nanohive, it withdrew it from your own stocks, similarly to dropsuits and vehicles? That would be the simplest option, and probably the best. Of course, there should probably be a default militia ammunition. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 18:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. Only one. You choose it when you fit your gun. (When gun customization comes out) Yes, I would like to see the option of customizing a gun with ammunition, but I'm still confused about how it would work. What if you kept your own ammo in stock, and when you went to a supply depot or nanohive, it withdrew it from your own stocks, similarly to dropsuits and vehicles? That would be the simplest option, and probably the best. Of course, there should probably be a default militia ammunition. Yup, that was my idea. And Militia ammo is free. Standard and above costs you money. You can't use Militia ammo with Prototype gear, you need ammo that fits your weapon grade.
You really should have made it more clear about how it worked.
In that case, I support. Ammunition is always fun.
Also, advanced and prototype are sort of like the Tech II of Dust. T2 ammo in EVE is far more significant costing than T1, so I guess that does make a difference. It shouldn't cost too much, though. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 18:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
It would be interesting to see how people react to ammunition. Perhaps it could be even more varied than in EVE. That would be fun. Gatling guns filled with EMP rounds? No one expected that!
On a side note, do vehicles use ammo? They probably should, then they would park next to supply depots to reload. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 18:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would be interesting to see how people react to ammunition. Perhaps it could be even more varied than in EVE. That would be fun. Gatling guns filled with EMP rounds? No one expected that!
On a side note, do vehicles use ammo? They probably should, then they would park next to supply depots to reload. lol, perfect way to take down the shields of all of the squad. Antimatter ammo would be problematic, we aren't talking about ships here, a teaspoon of Anti-matter can do a LOT of damage to the Earth in real life, so I guess there wouldn't be antimatter in Dust.
Most of the antimatter charge is actually just a containing material. The actual amount of antimatter would likely be much smaller than a speck of dust for a handheld weapon round, and quite a bit of it would be used up just travelling through the air. A true short-range ammo. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 20:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:It sounds workable. Instead of making the ammo one round at a time make it in ammo packs. Only problem is the skill for max magazine capacity. Would still need different resists built into the game. Therm, Kinetic, EM, and Explosive. I'm sure it's doable and more then likely CCP has a plan on how to do it. Say 50 rounds per pack? Or what they could do is take out the skill for the amount of ammo per clip. And then make each weapon grade have a different amount of rounds per clip. Then just make the blueprint able to manufacture different sizes of packs and however many packs you need. That would be the easiest unless they went with different blueprints for each ammo pack size.
Not necessary. It would be the same with or without "packs", the only difference would be the numbers, and the inventory system handles item quantity very well. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 20:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:Except I don't think anyone wants to sit and play manufacture single rounds at a time thing. Doing so wouldn't take long per round, just tedious. But having multiple 1000s of rounds in your inventory would kind of slow down the server when it has to check the database. And the database will only allow 1,200 items per hangar currently. It was originally 1,000 but they changed that with the recent expansion. I know this because on my EVE accounts I have several hangars with 100s of items and it takes the server between 5 and 10 seconds to access the database for my hangar.
Damn it, why don't you read the main post? He said it would be like in EVE, where ammunition manufacturing produces multiple rounds, except to an even greater degree.
Also, quantities of items are different. I know that EVE has a system that works, because I can have stacks of millions of ore and minerals, and I'm sure after the two are connected, the inventory system will be unified somehow. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 21:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oh, and there should be an option to quickly switch your ammo at supply depots so you didn't have to change your fit. Mostly for convenience. |
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Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.26 01:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:Nah, not incendiary. That's a solid projectile coming out of those ARs. The round heats up as it comes out due to friction inside the barrel and the air surrounding it. Same thing happens to real live bullets. They don't go fast enough to make enough friction to start fires though.
Actually, no. The Assault Rifle pumps plasma from hybrid charges into a ionized state and then fires them. |
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